Posts by defender of truth

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

defender of truth

Cold Steel 9 days ago
I'm not quite sure the JWs believe that animals will be resurrected..

They do not, I assure you.

According to the Watchtower, this short and often painful existence is all that animals have.

"Though animals die in the same manner as man, they do not share his hope of a resurrection."

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000281

You also stated the following, as though it were a fact:

As for the animals and humans who didn't survive in the flesh, they continued to survive in the spirit, as the apostle Peter noted of those who perished in the flood;

Your claim has no evidence whatsoever to support it.

Furthermore, animals receiving a resurrection after they were killed by God in the Flood, is not even stated in the Bible.

If you wish to contribute something useful to this thread, please can you at least do a little research and provide us with some evidence for your claim, or maybe even read the book you are citing as a reference (ie the Bible).

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Footnote:

* For anyone who is unsure of the verses that he's referred to, but not even bothered to quote, here they are*

"18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day,..."

www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/1-peter/3/

"Some people believe this passage teaches that during the three days his body was in the tomb, Jesus went into the spirit-world of the imprisoned lost. At that time, according to this theory, the Lord preached the gospel to those who died lost during the time of Noah’s flood."

www.christiancourier.com/articles/99-preaching-to-the-spirits-in-prison

Completely irrelevant to the topic of animal suffering, of course..

But don't blame me, he brought it up. Just so everyone knows what he is referring to. (As far as I can tell)

59

Why don't you do anything?

by WireRider in

i'm not jw, so i see this all standing up and very clear from an outsider perspective (i am still seeking my path).

i joined the blog a few weeks ago.

i dated a divorced jw (jw from birth) for a couple of years recently.

defender of truth

Not everyone can cope without their family/support system.

A total outsider with nothing to lose cannot even begin to understand the situation. There is no empathy, where there is no understanding.

Further, a thread like this accomplishes nothing.. It has no effect.

Except for perhaps making a few people feel guilty for choosing to sacrifice their freedom to speak their mind, in order to stay in touch with loved ones.

Those who are motivated to leave and are capable of it, will do so. An organised walkout will not add any further motivation for those scared of losing their families.

A million JW's could disassociate themselves tomorrow, and I would still remain an active JW. (My family are all 100% hardcore believers..)

-------

From your OP:

" I get the sense that all 35% or more don't like it - don't believe in it - feel it's a burden - ...hate to go - feel trapped. That is ridiculous.

The only thing propping them up is that 35% smile and pretend nothing is wrong - encouraging active members that all is good - and enticing new members to electro-shock religion because soooo many people appear to be members. The person next to you probably feels just as trapped as you but can't say anything.

They hate it too but put on a smile and don't want to get caught. They're scared to get caught. They may be there just because so many fake people that hide too all still go.

Pull the plug. Stop going so that they cannot claim so many numbers and sound so appealing to draw more people in. Shout. Shout a warning to all that this is not where they want to be.

Those that do still attend are supporting them - in numbers and presence - stop it."

The total number of JW's will not make their insane teachings, controlling propaganda and boring routine of field service and indoctrination, any more or less appealing.. Not to a single person, in my view. Other factors attract people to this group.

And regarding those on the inside of the organisation, those who may be faking it ..

If you know that your family and friends are not believers, it's all a big social club to them, and thus they would be ready to walk away if you were to do so.. Great.

If you are sure that your circle of friends and family is that laid back about "the Truth", then why bother to walk out? You are already as good as free. Just do the inactive fade-away thing.

Of course, if your family are not motivated by your 'bold stand for what you believe in', because they believe it all, so they treat you as though you were dead.. Ah well, you've only lost everybody who is important to you, eh? Never mind (!). At least you have lowered the attendance figures and no longer support the mostly irrelevant little cult known as the Watchtower.. How happifying.

Encouraging people to walk away purely because others may follow you out of the door, is a bit like encouraging people to play Russian roulette, in my view. Unless you already know which of the chambers are loaded (ie knowing which people in your family and friends don't believe any more), or you have nothing to lose (in terms of family and friends), then why would anyone take the risk?

Why should I destroy my life and lose my family, just to DA and subtract one number from a total on a worldwide report?

There is nothing ridiculous about a person being afraid of losing their family and friends, their whole support system.

Each one must carry his own load. ;)

14

41 Theses on Blood: My "best of" questions/arguments on JW Blood Ban

by Check_Your_Premises in

on the earth you should pour it out as water.. from these verses it is clear that there is an old testament prohibition against eating blood.

if not, why do you think it is sacred?

so whenever a person took the life of an animal, they were to drain the blood and not drink it because the blood represents the life and not theirs to take without god's permission.

defender of truth

Some food for thought here..

www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/204070001/watchtower-right-about-blood

21

Article: As religious group cashes in, former councilman lashes out

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20151217/blogs04/151219858.

as religious group cashes in, former councilman lashes out.

by erik engquist .

defender of truth

www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20151217/OPINION/151219924/jehovahs-witnesses-should-leave-brooklyn-a-big-thank-you-gift

10

Another example of selfish wordly people..

by defender of truth in

jw
friends

storm desmond - how kindness is keeping cumbria afloat.

read here:.

today, we are grateful to receive warnings that help us not to have a selfish attitude like that of most in the world.

defender of truth

Storm Desmond - How kindness is keeping Cumbria afloat

Read here:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35026650

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Today, we are grateful to receive warnings that help us not to have a selfish attitude like that of most in the world. Instead, we show unselfish love.

http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/402013683

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www.stylist.co.uk/life/the-most-moving-random-acts-of-kindness-strangers-help-out-campaigns#gallery-23

www.tribune.com.pk/story/991451/how-people-in-paris-helped-strangers-after-terrorist-attacks/

31

2015-11-18-BOE--Credits to jwfacts!

by Atlantis in

thanks to mr. jwfacts we now have a copy of this letter.

i would have posted it on his thread but there was already 2 pages of replies and i didn't think the link would be seen.. thank you again mr. facts!.

.. click the green download button.. http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/bbduxaa.

defender of truth

Very sorry, my reply was to Listener, don't ask why I typed Joe, lol! Not well at the moment.

31

2015-11-18-BOE--Credits to jwfacts!

by Atlantis in

thanks to mr. jwfacts we now have a copy of this letter.

i would have posted it on his thread but there was already 2 pages of replies and i didn't think the link would be seen.. thank you again mr. facts!.

.. click the green download button.. http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/bbduxaa.

defender of truth

Fair enough, Joe.

But I still think it would be worth posting or emailing the letter to the Australian Information Commission, and let THEM decide for themselves.

(i) the information relates to the activities of the organisation;

Look again at each bullet point on the letter..

Humility/ spirituality of the person and their families, meeting attendance and time spent in the ministry, action and speech regarding theocratic arrangements, along with marital status.. and the final bullet point mentions 'any additional comments' which could mean anything..

All very personal information that should not, IMHO, be necessary for them to know about those who are (we can only presume because they don't even state the reason behind their information request) to be used as accountants, solicitors and barristers.

Let the Watchtower defend themselves, it's worth a shot..

Please can someone send the Commission a copy of the letter?

It would be brilliant if someone could post them a copy, if you live in Australia..

www.oaic.gov.au/about-us/contact-us

31

2015-11-18-BOE--Credits to jwfacts!

by Atlantis in

thanks to mr. jwfacts we now have a copy of this letter.

i would have posted it on his thread but there was already 2 pages of replies and i didn't think the link would be seen.. thank you again mr. facts!.

.. click the green download button.. http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/bbduxaa.

defender of truth

steve2
Good point joe. I'd only add that police have legislative backing for their information gathering and storing - even without individual's consent - for obvious reasons.
However, I wonder about the right of a religious organization to gather information on specified individuals without their even knowing it is being gathered and stored.

If you are still interested, maybe have a look at the APP's (Australian Privacy Principles)

www.oaic.gov.au/privacy-law/privacy-act/australian-privacy-principles

"APP 3 provides that an APP entity must collect personal information only by lawful and fair means, and must (where reasonable and practicable) collect personal information about an individual directly from that individual.

In addition, ‘sensitive information’ may generally only be collected if the individual about whom the information relates has consented to the collection.

‘Sensitive information’ means information about an individual’s racial or ethnic origin; political opinions; membership of a political association; religious beliefs or affiliations; philosophical beliefs; membership of a professional or trade association; membership of a trade union; sexual orientation or practices; criminal record; health information about an individual; genetic background, or biometric identification (such as fingerprints that is to be used for the purpose of automated biometric verification)."

Summary of the australian privacy principles

"The biggest implication of these new laws is that bodies collecting and storing data (that’s potentially your company) can now be fined up to 1.7m per infringement.

The Privacy Amendment Act includes a set of new, harmonised privacy principles called Australian Privacy Principles (APPs). These APPs will regulate the handling of personal information by both businesses and Australian government agencies.

Sensitive information

3.3 An APP entity must not collect sensitive information about an individual unless:

(a) the individual consents to the collection of the information and:

(i) if the entity is an agency – the information is reasonably necessary for, or directly related to, one or more of the entity’s functions or activities; or

(ii) if the entity is an organisation – the information is reasonably necessary for one or more of the entity’s functions or aactivities"

www.cohortglobal.com/changes-to-australian-privacy-laws-effective-march-2014/

"Further the principles make it mandatory for organisations to give the option of client-anonymity. Good practice for internet trading and other electronic data collection is to include an opt-out clause when gathering client information.

Failure to maintain data integrity or to ensure that information is collected through compliant methods, may present substantial financial and reputational risks.

The obligations of the Act and the Privacy Principles are enforceable by the Australian Information Commissioner (AIC). As part of the legislative amendment, the Commissioner’s regulatory powers have been expanded with powers to investigate perceived breaches.

The AIC is empowered to conduct privacy audits of any Australian government body or regulated private organisation; where serious breaches are found, the Commissioner can penalise APP entities up to $1.1 million."

Not for profit compliance essentials

"There are no exemptions for Not-for-Profit or charitable entities."

www.charitiesnfplaw.com.au/2013/11/19/significant-privacy-act-amendments-to-regulate-government-agencies-individuals-and-businesses/

(Some of the links wouldn't fit on the page, that's why they are posted in blue text)

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Can someone please send a copy of this letter to the Australian Information Commission, and ask if they think APP 3.3 may apply here? They might be very interested in this apparent breach of privacy..

(Maybe you could phone the enquiry line and ask if this applies, if you live in Australia)

www.oaic.gov.au/about-us/contact-us

Please let us know if you get any response, or at least PM me, as this post took a while to put together. ;)

21

Matthew 24 - "This Generation": If you are a Jehovahs Witness that dares to study the Bible itself...

by defender of truth in

rather than just rely on the watchtower's latest opinions... are you ready?.

1) please read this article:.

2) if you are offended by the article's title, read this page for an explanation of what the phrase means, then go back and read it:.

defender of truth

Thank you to everyone for the positive feedback, and even a BTTT!

Really kind of you all, made me feel like it was worth the effort. Looking back on it now, I'm not sure how anyone could be bothered to read it, lol.

Life's good at the moment ;)

69

Could the Independent Inquiry in England and Wales expose jw.org's child abuse failures? And how can we help?

by defender of truth in

with all the talk about the org's policies and failures regarding child sexual abuse being publically exposed in australia, i thought that it may be a good time to highlight this... i apologise if this has already been discussed, but on the 9th of july the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in england and wales was opened.

here is some information regarding it's aims.. "about the inquiry.

the inquiry offers an unprecedented opportunity to examine the extent to which institutions and organisations in england and wales have taken seriously their responsibility to protect children.. the inquiry will investigate a wide range of institutions including:.

defender of truth

Don't give up hope yet...

Page 3 of the Independent Inquiry November statement reads as follows:

"10. Our fourth and fifth investigations will deal with failings by two major religious institutions in England and Wales, namely the Roman Catholic church and the Anglican church.

We will also be conducting research into child sexual abuse in other faith communities, which will lead to other investigations in time. "

And from page 1:

"Twelve investigations are proposed for this first phase.. They represent only the start of the Inquiry's investigations and are by no means the total of the work we intend to conduct; further investigations will be announced as the Inquiry progresses. "

Also, this is an important point from page 2:

"..We will not be limited to considering the particular institution that is the focus of the investigation, but will address the range of institutions responsible for child protection. And our recommendations will generally be made with the whole sector, rather than any specific institution, in mind."

This inquiry is ultimately all about highlighting institutional failures when it comes to protecting children from sexual abuse, then recommending ways that ALL religions (and all other sectors) can handle child sexual abuse differently.. Each of us wants the world to be a safer place for future generations to grow up in.

A potential exposure of harmful Watchtower policies would be great obviously...

But either way, whether Jw's are specifically investigated or not, the findings of this Inquiry are hopefully going to change the future with regards to institutional standards of dealing with abuse cases, and even getting proper support and compensation to victims (see page 7). I'll be keeping a close eye on it.

Please feel free to share any thoughts you have on the statement, it is well worth reading:

www.iicsa.org.uk/sites/default/files/update-statement-november-2015.pdf

Introductory video and updates are all here:

www.iicsa.org.uk/